Maybe only if it’s limited to post 2014 vehicles, otherwise it sounds kinda weird considering Ukraine was part of USSR itself.
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Really interesting to see what they are cooking.
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Been thinking about this again, even more so with the sharp increase in complaints about sub-trees and their placements, with the Dutch getting their first F-16 in an event.
This is so needed, even more so, so we don’t have unbalanced additions that lead to cases like that.
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It’s just an all round better system than what we have.
Gaijin would gain favour by listening, but they wont. Stubborn as usual.
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That’s a very good suggestion, and something really needs to be done about it. Australian tanks are in America, but their planes are in England. My head is spinning; everything is so confusing.
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only one is in USA and its the M1A1 AIM, all the othel aussie tanks are in the UK one the premium 5.3, the prem centurion and the CRV block 2 (i think i am missing same)
Ya, nations like Australia (even if it’s one of the better treated homeless nations) need to have their treatment dealt with.
Better treated as, every land vehicle but the AIM is in the UK (Matilda Hedgehog, AC I, AC IV, Cent 5/1, Boxer CRV (Land 400)). Even if most are event vehicles, so there is another problem with that.
But Australia and Canada, by number of vehicles, are the examples you don’t want your nation treated like, well, 90% of sub-trees, showing it’s not a way you want a nation to be treated as either in their current form.
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Why is this guy trying to rub one out🤨
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just rename the TT in British Empire or Commonwealth of Nations to have Britain, India, Canada, Australia, NZ (bob semple), and South Afrika together
Yeah that doesn’t work, and will only make everyone mad. Not enough space in the tree. This is why this suggestion is so important. For all tech trees.
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Pakistan just had another vehicle announced, their F-6C!
While this is another interesting Pakistani aircraft, being an export modification of the Chinese J-6 with improved suspended ordnance, this is also another step back into Pakistan being a paywalled nation after previously at least getting a few squadron vehicles.
Pakistan first got their entry to the game with the premium A-5C, then the JF-17 was added later as the first free option, at least for players in squadrons. Still there is no techtree options for Pakistan.
Ground
Their ground roster looks very similar to air, once again with a premium in the Al-Khalid-I, an event vehicle in the T-80UD/BE and a squadron Oplot-M as the only free option for players in squadrons.
Helicopters
Only helicopters so far lack a free option completely, with the Pakistani Mi-35M being a premium helicopter, and the only one in game from Pakistan.
Sadly this sets up Pakistan as a case similar to Finland, with many of their unique vehicles locked to soon to be past events and premium spots before they had a chance to appear in the techtree.
While I understand many Chinese players actively asked to focus on Chinese vehicles in the techtree instead, and this is just following popular demand, it clearly shows the limitations of the current system. Gaijin shouldn’t need to choose between China or Pakistan, both deserve proper growth and representation potential.
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It’s too bad, that plane would’ve been the best option at rank 6 for a Pakistani subtree. Now they’d have a hole there
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Is Pakistan considered a sub tree or just a filler nation atm? Because I don’t remember a announcement for them being a sub tree.
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Ambiguous. They confirmed Pakistan has a fixed home in the Chinese tree, so it’s a “subtree” in the sense that “A nation is placed with B nation”, but really not all subtrees are created equal and Pakistan is still stuck in that phase where everything they get is in the premium section.
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I’m a bit sad they didn’t go with this kind of setup, it’s a great suggestion this one, especially for the convenience of adding additional nations to a “folder” where it might need reinforcement. Also it allows for additional larp instead of just the “Look, I have this particular flag up” for those that look at the scoreboard during the match or after the match.
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It looks to me, like too much complications, i would rather all nations to be well represented or have at least their unique vehicles only in their TTs if only possible on given ranks. Instead of folders with TTs i would prefer a slider to move not only up/down on TT but also left/right as choice of vehicles would be increased, obviously it’s not necessary, ranks can be stretched, but if you want sub tech trees to be pure from vehicles from other nations, then slider would be very useful or even necessary. Your idea isn’t bad, but i think current model is more aesthetic.
Your concept surely is good if you want add option of ignoring certain vehicles, so they aren’t necessary to grind.
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Yeah, I try to avoid these complications as much as possible, but sadly there is no one perfect solution for everything.
For example in theory it makes no difference if nations are sorted in tabs or in distinct lines side-by-side in a techtree, the only functional difference is how these are navigated. For the tabs for example this creates clear sections for each nations, but at the cost of not having it all in one window.
Still, I believe this is a simpler and more streamlined solution compared to putting all in one. Currently the techtrees display only five lines at a time, and to increase the available space enough to properly represent subtrees as properly realized nations we would simply need significantly more.
To combat this there is then two main options, both with their own advantages and disadvantages:
Smaller Techtree Icons
(Very rough Example)Essentially by shrinking the icon size, more lines can be shown at a time. The issue with this is that the techtree will be hard to read, especially on lower resolutions, and the effects will only worsen the more space is needed.
While this is a good way to add a handful of lines, I personally don’t believe that will be enough to properly fit multiple nations without cutting corners, which is what I would like to avoid. Instead this can be very well used to flesh out individual nations more, as I don’t think five lines is enough for even one to be fully represented long term.
Side Scrolling Techtree
Essentially instead of just scrolling up and down, the techtree also scrolls to the side. This is the classic solution most commonly brought up and I can see why, in theory this promises infinite space.
This one is actually a good option, for example with adjustable zoom and a hold-and-drag-anywhere navigation this could probably be very usable, and definitely an improvement over the current game. The only point where I believe nation folders beat it are better techtree organization and more substantial national representation, which are to a large part subjective opinions.
But the real problem is that Gaijin have actively stated in the past that they don’t want side-scrolling in their UI. This is why I try to base everything in my suggestion on existing UI aspects as best as I can.
I’m not saying that nation folders are a perfect solution, there is a lot to improve and I’m always looking for feedback on how that could be done, but I think that it is the most convenient way to solve as many existing problems as possible while creating as little new ones as possible.
If you have your own ideas for improvement, or even just specific problems you want to point out, then please do.
Even if it doesn’t always end up in the suggestion, things like alternate UI ideas or even just discussions around the topic can always help me and potentially (if it ever gets passed) Gaijin understand the topic a lot better.
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Even if don’t change tech tree display it always had infinite space, each tier has as much space as necessary to fit all vehicles, some of them are foldered, but even if you had all magaches without folders in one tier then tier display is extended.
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I wish it was like that, but Gaijin did set some limits.
First off we have a limit of five lines in three rows per rank. While each of them can in theory be foldered, not every vehicle can be put in every line and foldered with any other.
This is because there’s the techtree sorting in Light/Medium/Heavy tank lines, TD lines and SPAA lines, the try to keep vehicles of one family somewhat close to each other. Then sometimes there’s finer sorting like for example in the Japanese air techtree where there is dedicated Army and Navy fighter lines, or the USSR air techtree that sorts by manufacturer.
In practice not all vehicles have the space to fit in the techtrees, especially considering the long term effects. Here’s an example based on the British tree:
Ranks 1 and 2 of a player made hypothetical “Ultimate British Air Tree”This techtree tries to include nearly all relevant British vehicles. While keeping within general Gaijin set rules of 5 * 3 per rank and a general sense of organization this requires 9 lines, despite the large amount of vehicles placed in four premium lines.
Space issues like this then are the reason we don’t have proper Indian or South African air techtree lines for example, and instead they have only select singular vehicles, mostly in the premium section. They aren’t treated as equal nations, because this is not possible without taking away from the already limited space of the “host” nation.
More space is needed for all involved nations to expand properly without needing to compete for the available spotlight.
But this doesn’t only affect subtrees. Some individual nations, namely the USA and USSR, have far more options for vehicles all on their own, likely requiring 10+ lines to properly expand. Here this is noticeable in that the techtrees will obviously favor more popular vehicles to fill the available space, which is generally those that are also widely exported.
This means despite hundreds of unique non-exported vehicles and prototypes, a significant portion of their techtrees will be found in other places of the game, leading to the nations feeling less unique.
4 Likes
You showed me rank 2, which has 10 rows vertically and can have more, so there is no limits in already existing system, lights can be on 2 lines without problem, there was never such limitation saying that vehicles must be separate, south African vehicles also aren’t on 1 line, also are mixed with vehicles of other nations, British TT is made of all its former colonies apart from USA, because USA didn’t exist as colony. Gajing is introducing new vehicles slowly, obviously vehicles from subtts will be often given as event vehicles, BP, premiums… obviously we all know India should be separate TT, so if their vehicles will be only premium then maybe it will be easier to remove them from British TT once gajing will decide to add independent Indian TT. There is no problem with adding all vehicles to existing TTs as there is no limits in space vertically, we don’t need a lot of vehicles in folders, in folders should be copy pastes and slight modifications, apart from situation where br gap must be filled with something and there is no available vehicle apart from copy paste.
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