Imagine if Ukraine put one of the 140mm guns onto the t-84.
Called the Bagheera.
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They advertised the idea of putting it into a T-64
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IMO it’s not unique enough to justify its own tree. Some new Ukrainian vehicles in the USSR tree would suffice
Since there is no word on my suggestion thread, I will post it here
if its pending its because its a big one/they have a lot of work and they need time to review it, i have one that is pending for a month now, its normal
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Does me posting its contents here compromise it in some way?
Nahh
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People sometimes post suggestion drafts as well so that others can see them, there’s no problem with it
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Apologies in advance for the long post. Here is my idea of a Ukr subtree within the Soviet tree
The changes and additions I made and the logic behind them:
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I switched the two main MBT lines since imo the natural progression of T-34, T-44, T-55 series is the T-64/80 series not the T-72/90 series. 34,44,55 are all made in Kharkiv (Or by Kharkiv staff after they were relocated to the Urals) so naturally the next evolutionary step is T-64 and what it further evolved into. While the T-62/72/90 series made in Uralvagonzavod has roots in the earlier Kharkiv designs, its safe to say these are domestic RSFSR/Russian vehicles instead, thus roughly dividing the two main soviet MBT lines into Ukrainian/Ukrainain SSR and RF/RSFSR lines.
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Added tanks to T-64/80 line based on BR gaps and interesting vehicles:
10.3 - Object 478A:
T-80UD prototype with no ERA. Foldered with T-64B.
11.0 - T-64BM2 (1999):
T-64 modernization with improved FCS, Kontakt-5 ERA and other minor improvements.
T-64 modernization with improved FCS, Kontakt-5 ERA and other minor improvements.
11.0/11.3 - T-80UD (Object 478BE-1):
Same as T-80UD/BE but with a T-84 style welded turret.
Same as T-80UD/BE but with a T-84 style welded turret.
11.7/12.0 - T-84:
This can be any T-84 from Object 478DU4-DU8. Would be about the same BR as the already proposed Malaysian T-84 (Object 478DU8).
This can be any T-84 from Object 478DU4-DU8. Would be about the same BR as the already proposed Malaysian T-84 (Object 478DU8).
12.0/12.3 - T-64BM Bulat:
Latest variant of T-64, features improved mobility, armour and firepower.
Latest variant of T-64, features improved mobility, armour and firepower.
12.0/12.3 - T-84U Oplot (Object 478DU9):
First serial production T-84. Depending on whether the armour is modelled properly, it can be either 12.0 or 12.3.
First serial production T-84. Depending on whether the armour is modelled properly, it can be either 12.0 or 12.3.
12.3/12.7 - T-84BM Oplot (Object 478DU9-1):
Same as the already added Oplot T/M. If the armour is fixed it could go to 12.7 along with BVM. Will probably need a new APFSDS round such as 3BM44U1 instead of BTA4.
Same as the already added Oplot T/M. If the armour is fixed it could go to 12.7 along with BVM. Will probably need a new APFSDS round such as 3BM44U1 instead of BTA4.
- Added tanks to other lines:
9.3 - BTR-3E1:
Same as the BTR-3E1 in the Thai Tree, while currently it is at 9.0, there is an accepted report to make its missiles fire on the move with stabilization, so I am placing it at 9.3 preemptively.
Same as the BTR-3E1 in the Thai Tree, while currently it is at 9.0, there is an accepted report to make its missiles fire on the move with stabilization, so I am placing it at 9.3 preemptively.
11.7/12.0 - T-72MP:
T-72B(?) with new FCS with Thermals, Nizh ERA, improved mobility with 6TD-1 1200hp engine.
T-72B(?) with new FCS with Thermals, Nizh ERA, improved mobility with 6TD-1 1200hp engine.
Proposed Accompanying Decals:
(From left to right, top to bottom):
-UAF Roundel 1918, UAF Roundel 1992, UAF Roundel 1993-Present, Naval Aviation Roundel
-UAF Fin Flash 1992, UAF Fin Flash 1993-Present, 299th Aviation Brigade Emblem, Text “Leonid Bykov”
-Ground forces Emblem, Air Force Emblem, Navy Emblem, Air Assault Forces Emblem
Additional possible vehicles:
These are vehicles that are popular and can also be added, But I don’t know how to estimate their BR and thus excluded them from the initial tree.
BTR-4E
T-55AG
T-72-120
T-72AMT
T-80UD (Object 478BEM)
All the BRs depend heavily on how the armour is modelled, especially Nizh ERA. Realistically it should be about the same or slightly better than relikt. Assuming it is modelled like that, I have made the initial placements on the image provided in the beginning.
I am ofc open to suggestions/alterations and any other kind of feedback. I probably have some information wrong and missing some popular vehicles. Please feel free to discuss further. I hope this is passed to devs and we can see this in game :)
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I actually made a really in-depth tree like this awhile ago, it’s probably outdated now but if you need any help let me know.
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Good work overall, but even if we take just the present Soviet/Russian vehicles and the ones you included in the TT (thus excluding possible existing/future Soviet/Russian/Ukrainian vehicles), the TT already looks very cramped.
I believe that slamming Ukraine – or any other ex-USSR country – into the current design of TTs and their subs just sucks and will be contreproductive (eg. making those countries pure event/premium material with rare researchable exampliers).
If UA is to be added to USSR as sub-tree, there 100% should be a different way to fit things – and it is a pretty known way on the forum, even though developers said “no UI reworks”
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This is just a small idea on how they could present the individual post-soviet era nations
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Placing BM Bulat at 12.3 and Oplots at 12.7 is the most stupidest things you could have done.
Even if you take best versions of T-64BM (either 2022 T-64BM2 with TPN-1TPV thermal and 6TD-1 engine or T-64BM with 6TD-1, reverse and no thermal) they will not even be 11.7, most likely 11.3 or 11.0. Oplots in USSR would legit be worse than Chinese ones for the lack of chinese APFSDS (UA never had any better than 3BM42U)
Same for placing T-72MP at 11.7 when it’s just sidegrade to T-72B3M. Also 6TD-1 engine produces 1000 HP, not 1200.
Placing T-62BM2 from 1999 above soviet T-80UD is also delusional, it should be at same BR (if decompression happens lower than it, since it’s loses to T-80UD in turret armour and mobility).
There’s also no reason BTR-3E1 should be higher than BTR-82AT (especially since in game it’s not) and for this to lack any BTR-4’s. Even with fire on the move there’s just no need for it to be that high.
Object 478A would legit suck at 10.3, as you re proposing basically T-80B with better turret but worse hull armor, worse mobility and lack of thermals. T-64BV would be a better vehicle to take than that. Object 478A could fit where base T-80 could also fit, at 9.7 or 10.0 range.
T-84 is also rather poor choice to be at 12.0 given that it had no thermals unless you take their export configs or just take 2018+ T-84’s (Object 478DU9) that got TPN-4EMbt, since in Ukrainian service they had no thermals up until 2018.
Also you can just forget about armor being modeled “correctly”. As long as the 3BM42 round underperforms in War Thunder, so will ukrainian ERA, as currently it’s performance is tied to effectiveness of Duplet against 3BM42, hence why if 3BM42 underperforms (which it does) so does Nizh/Duplet).
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Chill out bro 😭
I’ll read everything after work.
I agree with you that a subtree would make it pretty cramped, however this was the best solution that came to mind, barring the UI change thing. Which, if implemented, would be preferable to a subtree.
One of the main reasons I wanted a subtree is to show the clear evolution of tanks from the BT series to the T-64/84 series. That’s why I moved the lines around because the T-64/80 series has basically nothing to do with the Soviet heavy tank series that they’re currently in a line with.
If Ukraine is made a separate tree I doubt we will see these older vehicles in the series.
Perhaps foldering some of the vehicles would make it a bit more palatable.
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Eh, folders also have limits, and you will also be close to hit it when it comes to upper tiers. Let alone ranks V-VI, where Soviet era has like double the vehicles left to offer.
Unless folders extend further, or more vehicles per line are allowed (which will increase the grind), I don’t think cramping everything is the best solution.
Nation folders would be more UI-friendly while also making grind a bit easier (say, I don’t want to grind through T-90A and T-72B3 to play T-72MP/AMT, or I don’t want to grind through Oplots to play T-80BVM).
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